You sound like a republican congressmen.

I'm a Christian. I don't worry about such nonsense.
FDR: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

Romney/Ryan will restructure the way benefits are paid out.

You've been listening to too much Debbie Wasserman-Schultz flap trap.

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. UGH!! Nancy Pelosi's just as evil twin.

I love Republican Amnesia when it comes to who is truly responsible for the mess that we're in economically. Last time I checked it was Obama who pulled us out of a "financial meltdown."

First two words..."Sound off" is an invitation.

I absolutely agree. Whatever the Democrats shortcomngs, we need a polity of civic involvement not of meanspirited individualism. As DJ says, that includes paying what we owe.

DJ Romney has 5 point plan to fix things , while Obama just has goals which is stupid . Maybe everyone could be rich and not have to work is a nice goal .

Stoughton Fan
I watched the presidents speech purposely because I am not a fan but wanted to make sure that I heard both sides of the arguments. In his speech, Mr.Obama promised more "investment" which is code for spending on education, infrastructure, green energy, etc., He laid out a yet another vision of the country, as he sees it, not a plan or any means to achieve it. His own budget did not receive one single vote from either party. Not one. There was no plan other than more promises. And those promises he did make, were scaled back promises,"do overs" of the promises he made 4 years ago that he completely and utterly failed to deliver on.

WHY would I trust that four years from now he can be trusted to fulfill any of the promises he makes. He has no credibility, he is divisive, he is a race bater, and he tries very hard to divide us through class warfare. If you want me to document any of these facts I'd be happy to. Unemployment is out of control, spending is out of control, debt is out of control, median income is down, Medicare and Social Security are going bankrupt and I could go on and on. What is Mr Obama's Plan? (hear the sound of crickets).

BTW, Joe Biden should be charged with complete distortion of any fact he touched on. His speech was an egregious assault on the truth.

I did not watch/listen to either Romney or Obama. So I can only answer the final question. Romney/Ryan 2012!!

deb, check this out: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/09/the-merger-evangelicalism-and-the-gop.html

When Roger Williams founded the RI colony after having escaped the theocracy in Boston (1620s) he wanted a "wall of separation" between church and state not so much to protect the State from the Church but to protect the Church from the corruptions of government incursions and the values of government and markets. What Williams feared has come true. Religion is defiled by contact with the filth of money and markets, banks, greed, politicians in league with moneyed interests (Koch, Sidney Adelson, Abrahamoff, Ralph Reed. etc. etc.)
"By their fruits ye shall know them."

About Bill Clinton, we might have all had a sense that anything he would say, we've heard before. Plus, I find it a bit disingenuous that he who is totally at odds with Obama would sing his praises.

"I fear that all of the government programs available to help train our employees and low interest rate loans to purchase machinery will disappear."

Those taxpayer funded programs might disappear no matter who gets elected. No one has an appetite for any more debt. However, it is true that there are those who got stimulus funds who were able to put it to good use. Problem is, the taxpayer's money that was spread out did not trickle down to enough people. In a lot of cases, it went to supportive friends of Obama... the unions come to mind. So union workers enjoy nice wages and benefits while the rest of us work three jobs to buy a loaf of bread, or living off EBT cards. The help has been uneven. The unemployment rate in Fall River is about 12%.

Can Romney change things around? I don't know. But we do know what Obama can do.

Well, for the purpose of national security, Id rather be mum on screaming out that we killed Bin Laden three times in a row (cough Joe Biden)...that will only further cause problems for us and our troops. Obama is going to continue turning this country around? Seriously..he can't, simple as that. Sure, he is probably a great guy and perhaps putting him back into his role of community organizer would be a better fit. He does not however understand economics at all. If he did, we would be better off 4 years later and the debt clock would be going down, not up. Actually, because of the passing of Obamacare my husbands company has laid off hundreds of workers. Why? because the bill includes a tax on all medical device inventory. Yes - inventory..meaning the products that have not even been sold yet. There is another way to fix healthcare in America and its not Obamacare. Just ask our friends from Canada who have to wait a good 8 months before they can get a simple MRI. Oh and medicare - this is my favorite. Heads up - if medicare continues like it is...there will be no medicare in 10 years. simple as that. So why not cut and reform and make it better?

You know what the saddest part of both conventions were?..the fact that the George Bush could not attend because of all the backlash and limelight that the President still puts on him 4 years later. Yes, a President that, may have not gotten everything right, but in the worst moment of this country's history, stood before us a leader and gave us real hope.

Romney/Ryan 2012

Women for Obama,

First as a woman who has a daughter this notions about the war on women is just make up. Second I am not a huge Obama fan but he certainly gets kudos from me for getting Bin Laden. One glaring difference I saw with the two conventions was that the DNC did a much better job of showing grattitude for our verterans and current service men. The RNC fell down on this.
I will tell you that Clinton is one of the best politicians ever and his speaches are and always have been remarkable. That still does not take away the huge character flaws he has. Again as a woman and a mother I would not let him within a MILE of my daughter. It is also interesting that those who have talked about this war on women give the greatest praise to someone with the history Clinton has. It is a confusing message.

Regarding specifics, below is an excerpt from Romney's speech with the highlights of his plan. You may have missed this:

"And unlike the president, I have a plan to create 12 million new jobs. It has 5 steps.
First, by 2020, North America will be energy independent by taking full advantage of our oil and coal and gas and nuclear and renewables.
Second, we will give our fellow citizens the skills they need for the jobs of today and the careers of tomorrow. When it comes to the school your child will attend, every parent should have a choice, and every child should have a chance.
Third, we will make trade work for America by forging new trade agreements. And when nations cheat in trade, there will be unmistakable consequences.
Fourth, to assure every entrepreneur and every job creator that their investments in America will not vanish as have those in Greece, we will cut the deficit and put America on track to a balanced budget.
And fifth, we will champion SMALL businesses, America’s engine of job growth. That means reducing taxes on business, not raising them. It means simplifying and modernizing the regulations that hurt small business the most. And it means that we must rein in the skyrocketing cost of healthcare by repealing and replacing Obamacare.

President Obama promised to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. MY promise…is to help you and your family".

Women for Obama, thanks for your breath of fresh air here. The mob mentality is pretty thick.
for those R/R supporters, just take Romney. Zero foreign policy experience. None. Goes to Britain and insults the British, has to be so superior and tells them their Olympics aren't ready. What an arrogant thing to say--but that's who he is. Then he goes to Israel and the Israeli's can't stand him. Can you imagine this newbie with his finger on the nuclear trigger. Someone above said she doesn't worry about the future because she's Christian. Whatever does she mean. My son and daughter in law are Christian and they worry about their children's future. Not everyone who's a Christian is waiting or longing for the Rapture to come and loft us up to heaven. Get real.

It's so sad that citizens still believe that one man can fix a country ... and do it in four years' time. We may have been further along if the Republican-controlled House hadn't been obstructionist. The comments I've read here are focused on personality, not statesmanship. We know what Romney is: a politician who seeks office as a step on the ladder of success. He did it in MA, spent 1/2 of his governorship outside of the state, and bad-mouthed MA whenever he spoke. He used a 1913 law that was put into effect to prevent MA from recognizing black/white marriages as a way to keep civil rights from gays; he didn't raise taxes but instead raised state fees; and he ignored the Big Dig problems until a woman was killed in the airport tunnel. Some real good management there? But I digress a bit: the convention was organized and predictable ... except I was quite impressed with the eloquence of several mayors and Gov. Deval Patrick. They personified public service. Romney just doesn't do that for me. Clinton did well in his usual style, speaking clearly about how good government works best through patience and compassion ... and when the "arithmetic" is right!
I joined the Green-Rainbow party recently and I'll be voting for Jill Stein, but for all of you out there who are on the fence, stick with the road travelled and give this country more time to recover. Vote for Obama or Stein, but keep Romney (and Brown) away from Washington, DC. He is an autocrat and a theocrat.

Agreed.

Charles I could not agree more! I do tend to lean more conservative but this notion that either side and thier leaders are all stupid or greedy it just crazy. I believe we all want the same thing in the end, to be able to support our families, have a good education, protect our boarders and keep us safe. The problem is that people strongly disagree with how we get there. Since both sides have been in power and both side have had remakable successes and failures, we should be looking at what worked and what didn't to make the necessary adjustments going forward.

The bitterness has been caused by O bama who has caused division and hatred that is here today !

In fairness the bitterness has been around since at least the Clinton days

Terrific post Charles. I agree with you completely. Just look at Phiilips and TTGB response to it to prove it is very, very difficult to change people. Too many want to point fingers and complain instead of becoming part of the solution. Too eager to believe one line or one paragraph to explain very complex issues. Hence, the origination and use of the sound bite. Through something against the wall enough until it sticks. The dumbing down of America. We no longer have the patience to watch or read anything in detail and the political machine on both sides know this. Fear is always used to persuade and isolate. The only real answer I see to help keep congress moving is to bring in a third party, but both sides have managed to convince voters to fear that option too.

Is there anything else you'd like to contribute to that?

Vote for baby boomer Mitt Romney and protect medicare !

FC I can agree with much of what you say and a good way around the BS that takes place in Congress and continues to hamper the entire system is two words TERM LIMITS!!!! Why is it so hard for people to understand that it is really not the President but part of his cabinet and ALL of Congress! Why anyone should be allowed to make a career out of the same position in politics is beyond me.

Romney will save medicare for the next generation ! O bama will only steal 700 billion from medicare .

I am just bumping up against that line but realize that if we do not do something there will be nothing left. So if we need to make a few cuts going forward then that is what should be done. What certainly can not happen is that we continue to keep in place plans that cost so much they are unsustainable.

I'm 68 and I don't want Romney/Ryan to get their mitts on Medicare.

Romney courts the votes of older Americans, assuming we'll fall for this. I do hate this "I've got mine, Jack!" attitude in any generation. But know that many of us 'Greedy Geezers' do, in fact, care about the Baby Boomers and Gen X and beyond, and their well being.
By the time you're 65 you deserve the Choice to retire (I worked until 68). Romney/Ryan is cynical beyond belief. I would never vote to deprive future Americans of what I have. Let's cut the darn bloated multi-trillion dollar military budget (Congress offered 1 Trillion more than the military even asked for) and take care of the real Americans for a change, as opposed to the cardboard cutouts and empty chairs Republicans talk to.

YIKES!

Romney is gaining votes every day because of the fools like you ! SO PLEASE KEEP TALKING !

Treason? You really need to take it down a notch, perhaps America isn't quite your taste. If I can't live in a society where getting to be in that '1 percent' isn't possible - then I give up. When did it become so bad to be really successful? Seriously, I would like to know. This country is built on success, yet the minute a person makes over $200,000, they are labeled, "elite", rich and undeserving. If you earn money, you should be able to keep a fair amount of that money. There is no 1 percent anyone sir...its more like .1 percent. Please, in today's society, even if you make a million dollars, you are really pulling in maybe 500,000 and with families to feed... Inflation, mortgages, car payments, taxes, the cost of overall everyday goods, gasoline - maybe your left with less than 100,000 - whoops I forgot education. deduct some more. The 1 percent of billionaires? Who cares, I hope they are happy, pay their taxes and are good citizens. Its the rest of us - upper class, middle class, lower class and the poor - everyone in society is struggling and tapping billionaires is not the answer and neither is Obama.

Obama has failed as president and blaming Bush is FOOLISH and will not work !

Dick, I hear you, unlike the others who replied to you. It really does take more than diatribe and impatience to understand how government works, and we always need to listen to people who approach government with sensible and fair ideas. Both parties have provided us with much good over the years.
I've lived long enough to know most politicians are all the same. Those who stand out are the ones who stayed the course and were principled. Obama has those traits; Romney does not. Just fact.
If I remember correctly from the Dem. Convention, someone spoke of "trickle down" economics and its myth of promise, pointing out that during this decade-old time of war, the wealthy in this country accepted a tax cut when, in the name of good citizenship, they should have paid their fair share. That was a sobering statement and an indictment against the richest among us ... how sad for those who "have" when they believe a tax cut is patriotic. Very sad, indeed.

The top 5% of income earners pay 56% of the taxes. How is that not paying their fair shrare? This arguement that the 1% are fat cats not paying their fair share is completly dishonest and the only way the Democrats can try to steel the arguement with untruths.

Stoughtonfan, repeating the soundbite of Glen Beck and Fox news president doesn't mean your telling the whole story. According to the CBO, The rich have gotten richer with the top 1% having an 11.6% growth in earning since 2010 and the bottom 99% having a .2% growth. The rich are paying more not because of higher tax rates, but because they have become richer.

DJ, the 1% and 99% are not statistics but a made up number by the occupy people. (what do they stand for again BTW?) So stop talking about it like it is a real stat. So how much is enough? The top 10% pay 71% of the taxes. 71%! Your arguement has no merit. According to the IRS: (see link below)
Top earners are the target for new tax increases, but the federal income tax system is already highly progressive. The top 10 percent of income earners paid 71 percent of all federal income taxes in 2009 though they earned 43 percent of all income. The bottom 50 percent paid 2 percent of income taxes but earned 13 percent of total income. About half of tax filers paid no federal income tax at all.
http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

DJ furthermore, according to the US Department of the Treasury for the years 1996-2005:
Median incomes of taxpayers in the sample increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation. The real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers increased over this period. Further, the median incomes of those initially in the lowest income groups increased more in percentage terms than the median incomes of those in the higher income groups. The median inflation-adjusted incomes of the taxpayers who were in the very highest income groups in 1996 declined by 2005.
Source:
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf
page 4 of 22

Stoughton fan; The statistics I quoted came from the CBO, Congressional Budget Office. It was in reply to your own use of 1% and they are real stats not made up by occupy anything. You didn't follow my argument as to why and who is paying the taxes. It's not the percentage of tax paid, it's the tax base being met. Someone paying 25% on 5 Million is obviously paying more then someone paying 25% on $50,000. That is not the point. The point is that the tax burden weighs heavier on the lower earner who's earnings have only increased by .2% while the higher earner has realized increases that exceed 11%.

It sure is nice you have no preconceptions ....

Okay,if you honestly believe that not cutting medicare will help the folks that truly need it, you are blind. If we do not cut and REFORM now (ah,there is a nice key word),then there will be no medicaid for future generations, period. The debt clock is, right now, at 16 trillion. Compare that to the end of 2008, just days before President Obama officially took office, when the total federal debt was short of $10 trillion. That’s a 60 percent increase in the federal debt in less than 4 years. And, by the way, how has the country benefited from spending 6 trillion? If the debt clock continues to rise, which it will under Obama who has already said that it is better to continue to spend our way out of this mess, then it will reach close to 22 trillion by the end of the next 4 years. At that point, the country is broke - dead broke and there is no way to fix that. Welcome to Greece, welcome to Europe. We cannot find a way out of 22 trillion in debt. Oh, and by the way, did you know that in Russia, in order to put money in the bank, you must pay the bank first 10 cents. In America at current time, bank accounts are only making 10 cents (10 CENTS!) on savings. Once this country goes dead broke, welcome to Russia were we will be paying to store our money. Forget about Medicaid, education and being able to provide for the children - which is a nice thing that you want to do. Forget about all the children in this country who need help, I wont be able to provide for my own children.

Maria , The democratic speakers were defending obama who they know has been a huge failure !

The big difference between both conventions - Republicans critiqued Obama, and rightfully so. Democrats attacked Romney, Ryan and the whole Republican platform. Republicans did not attack the Democratic platform, they attacked Obama's failed policies. Huge difference. Democrats were far more negative and petty. They use George Bush and Sarah Palin's names like they are not human beings. It is truly pathetic, unnecessary and not fair to the American people.

Daniel, it is clear that Ryan wanted to cut Medicaid by 1/3 and that he wanted to keep tax cuts for the rich. I don't know if he wanted to cut Medicaid *so* he could keep tax cuts. Maybe he just hates the poor and loves the rich, and the two acts happened at the same time, no causal link.
CBO report here: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-20-Ryan_Specified_Paths_2.pdf

I appreciate Dan's willingness to look at both sides. This is in stark contrast to others on this site, such as Gretchen R..

Romney will perserve medicare for those who need it today and save medicare for future generations . Obama will do nothing and medicare will go broke .

I agreed; much opinion is skewed here. An important point for all to remember is that this country doesn't function on the actions of one man. We must also have a Congress that is willing to work, too. Just as importantly, no president, under usual circumstances, can make law unilaterally: nothing can be promised by any candidate except a promise of "I will try". "I will do ..." is not a credible nor accurate selection of words to put forth a policy. No president alone can change medicare and no president has enough power to make a government program "go broke". Voting for someone based on promises is foolish. Better to vote for someone on accurate information, stability, and character.

this from the woman who keeps saying that the right is waiting for the rapture? Really? Perhaps Gretchen you should take a deep breath, collect your thought and actually talk facts (which you sometimes do) and get rid of the fear mongering and stereotypes they you spew. It will make your arguments so much more meaningful.

Gretchen, dear; it is YOU that have blinders on and are "skewed". Your positions are uniformly Far Leftist. Your attitude seems to be that Republicans don't deserve to exist. Obama is the malevolent fascist, the first president to actually hate the
U. S. of A. He deserves total rejection as the bad 'bill of goods' that he is.

Jeffrey,
Perhaps it is you that has a short memory, trickle down economics or as it was known in the 1980's Reaganomics actually worked. Unemployment was around 4 percent and the economy was booming with jobs, in other words, people were realizing the American Dream where everyone succeeds. The liberals when they took control of the house and senate in 2007 went on a spending spree and Barack Obama continued by spending and spending, especially on free rides for the illegal immigrants who don't belong here in the first place. At least when the Republicans took control of the house in 2010, they were able to stall some of the President's socialist agenda; however, the Republicans need control of the senate and get Mitt Romney elected to the White House in order for bad job destroying legislation such as Obamacare to be repealed.

To the decided contrary, Mr. Romney was a fine governor, a good governor.

Romney keeps lying and distorting Obama's record. What's to like about that. He hasn't laid out his policies or committed to anything. Obama needs to do a better job of this himself but he doesn't blow with the winds of the daily polls. He said last week he might be in favor of abortion for rape or incest and then his masters told him he couldn't deviate from the Republican platform and the next day he went back to the Party line. Another etch-a-sketch moment. By the way the link to this failed attempt to appeal to women voters is on NPR.org.

Your right Philip maybe he will work for free again?

Sarek: I don't think I have denigrated anyone for their beliefs. If so, that was not my intention. I am just trying to point out that religious freedom could be in jeopardy. You may agree or disagree. Or you may believe there is no room for religion in the public square.

IMO, most denigration going on regarding beliefs and/or non beliefs comes from the left. People of faith are constantly mocked in the media and beyond. Maybe such disrespect is fear driven born of ignorance. Such close-mindedness is very disheartening and certainly not what this country is all about.

For you who speaks in circles and riddles, and believes that the disciples were communists:
"From the university days of Karl Marx to the present, official spokesmen for Marxism have been consistent about the content of their theology—that God, whether known as a Supreme Being, Creator, or Divine Ruler, does not, cannot, and must not exist." Marxist theology

And it begins with not having God on the platform... then deciding 'yes' when more than half of the convention crowd screamed 'NO' (we don't want God on the platform).

Where are you leftists at, and who are you to speak of religion? Frankly, you make no sense.

Deb: I think you may be stereotyping. Neither left nor right has a monopoly on religious intolerance. Some of the anti-Islamic sentiment in this country clearly comes from those who are politically conservative. That said, there have long been strains between Jews and Muslims and between Jews and blacks, this coming from the political left. I'm a religious pacifist and did faith-based organizing in Rhode Island for 35 years -- in the public square, so to speak -- and the intolerance I've been subjected to comes from the right. My husband and I were targeted here in Seekonk by a neo-Nazi group from Pawtucket back in 1980. The FBI made an arrest and found an arsenal of weapons. The group was anti-Semitic, sending congratulations cards to Jewish families that had recently experienced a death in the family, as well as religious pacifists. When I returned from a Quaker trip to Vietnam to determine needs for medical and humanitarian assistance (rototillers and fish nets) after the war, I was picketed by members of the Clayville Baptist Church. I believe strongly in having conversations about God in the public square. We claim to be one nation under God but never get around to discussing what that should mean for public policy.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/09/the-merger-evangelicalism-and-the-gop.html

The GOP is in trouble for its close links to the ultraconservative Christian Right. Many more voters in this election are aware that not every Christian leader has the nation's best interest at heart.

Carol: I didn't write anything about intolerance. I wrote people of faith are mocked and disrespected. Institutionalized religious intolerance could be on the horizon, though.

I think women have the right to make decisions about their own healthcare and their own bodies. Romney, many Evangelicals, and the Catholic bishops want to outlaw abortion. This is truly a War on Women: when you seek to take a legally established right away from half the population.
If don't want an abortion, don't have one. But don't force women to live by your political or theological "beliefs." If you want the personhood amendment, that a one celled fertilized egg or a 8 celled zygote has a"paramount right to life," then vote for Romney. How much proof do you folks need that the Republican nominees are radically out of touch with the needs of this nation?
Romney is going to run his campaign on this extremist stand. I think, thought time will tell, that it will be the undoing of his chances in Nov.

Do you really believe voting for Romney will save Isreal???????

You and I will, of course, disagree on which party has the true anti-women and anti-family policies. As for birth control, I can't understand why women still need a prescription. We wouldn't be having this debate if this were the case.
Healthcare as a human right? I'll have to think on that one. I think the subject is far more complex than just insisting it is a right. Of course, no one should be discriminated against. I'll leave it there, for now. I also believe will eventually have a single-payer, government run health care system. And it will be just as good as the government schools.

I guess you are referring to Edward Klein's interview with Rev. Jeremiah Wright for Klein's book "The Amateur". The Rev. Wright was quite willing to be interviewed and has made damaging remarks against Obama.

Romney is not pushing an anti-woman agenda, and certainly not anti-family policies. I'm near positive in saying that Romney believes in birth control. After all he had five sons in quick succession, then stopped. Mormons allow birth control.

Please show me where in the constitution it says that birth control is a right. If you want birth control you have a right to go purchase it or practice it. Don't however, insist that the rest of us pay for your lack of personal responsability, Instances of rape aside. Birth control is your personal responsibility. Here again, the liberals don't want to talk about the trainwreck of an economy that Barak Obama has failed to fix after 4 long years. Let's talk about everything else but that.

No. The ancient Romans were decided against Christianity (until Constantine, in the early 300s A.D.), sending many to deaths in the arena "to entertain the masses" as well as to "send a message".

You must be joking? This film is not embraced by any credible conservative source. The film maker is a luny tune and also basing the film on his ill conceived book full of "red-baiting, fear mongering and intellectual dishonesty." And that is the nicest thing I've ever heard or read about him and his film.

Fine Deb, have it your way. Even if you remove christianity from Sakes' remarks, you would still have a fact that the vast majority of wars have historically been in the name of God or religion and for an extended period of time, those wars were instigated around Christianity. God and religion may have an important and valuable place, but not within politics of government. Even our four fathers embraced "God" in generic and universal terms.

I thought we fought wars for oil. Hmmm.....

DJ,
No, I'm not joking and you call the movie maker a luny tune? What about that crap of a movie about George W. Bush that wacko Michael Moore filmed back in 2004, that movie was not at all true and it made Bush look bad in the process but what can I say, it was a liberal left wacko who produced it. The 2016 film is based on factual evidence that our President, Barack Obama holds anti-colonialism and anti-American views that aren't good for America's future.

there is no hierarchy of suffering...people suffer in life, it's part of life. Then
there is the suffering caused by humans, often willfully, sometimes blindly. Would you compare the suffering of Tibetan Buddhism with that of the Chinese who are Christian? I wouldn't. Suffering is suffering. Let's reduce the suffering we human cause.
Or as the Dalai Lama says, "My religion is compassion." He lives that, too. For the rest of us, myself included, it's a daily practice and I keep falling of the wagon in places like here....

Jesus is all about compassion. But Jesus also preached obedience.

Division, per se, is not the infinitely bad thing you imply. It certainly is preferable to all thinking alike----usually under coercion, such as during Communism's heyday.
An example from our own history is Alexander Hamilton versus the greatest Dem of them all, Thomas Jefferson. It's far better for the American people to have a choice than to have "a choice" in name only.

Okay, so vote for Romney and have us back at square one where we were "4 years ago", trying to make sense of the mess that Bush and Congress left for us then. And saluting the flag during the anthem has never been widely promoted; it was always encouraged during the Pledge of Allegiance (and that salute once took the same form of the salute the Nazi's used, but was dropped from US public schools during WWII).

"This type of fear mongering and propaganda should be denounced by all Americans."

Does that include the BS being spread by the Dems against Romney and Ryan? If so, then I agree, it should be all denounced. This is silly season. For every lie told about Obama, there are two being told about Romney. So relax.

I like emcee's style. "My side's fine because your side is worse." It's okay to throw a stone because somebody told me that somebody over there threw two. GO AMERICA

Emcee: you make charges without any verification. BTW this is not "silly season." And the lies have always sprung from the Right and the Republicans. Their only hope of winning is if they suppress voters by limiting the hours the polls are open in contested states like Ohio and Florida. Funny, all the 5 states (in all) have a Republican attorney general throwing a monkey wrench into the voting mechanism.
We don't have long lines to vote here, but in other states it's a tool to limit voting. Imagine if you had to stand 8 hours in line to vote because some Republican AG decided you and other standees were statistically likely to vote Democratic.
WIN FAIR, or quit.

Here is a little of the back and forth taken from an article from The Christian Monitor... remember I said both sides are guilty.

"Did you know that Mitt Romney is responsible for the death of a steel worker’s wife? Or that President Obama gutted the work requirement for welfare? Do you remember President Obama’s famous “Apology Tour” that kicked off his first term? How about that Gov. Romney outsourced thousands of Massachusetts jobs to India?"

Now, I'm guessing you'll say the lies about Romney are true, and the lies about Obama are lies... but they are all that: lies.

Emcee, why would you list "lies" uttered by the candidates when that has nothing to do with what we were discussing, which was lies made up about the candidates such as Obama not being American, not patriotic and so forth and spread like wildfire electronically. I mean really, preventive care is embraced by both sides and though there may be some with a varied view, the claim is hardly a lie or slanderous.

The CSM quote about Romney causing someone's death sounds pretty slanderous, but hardly a popular rumor making headlines or email boxes. The one about outsourcing is still being debated and the Washington Post stands behind its related story though certainly other claims that Romney was directly responsible for outsourcing as Governor appear false. Though I agree with you that both sides fabricate and stretch and wiggle facts, the zealous attacks targeting Obama have been extreme and relenting. I recently read a poll showing that 17 to 20 % of REGISTERED voters still believe Obama is a muslim. As of April 2011 nearly 45% of all republicans still believed Obama was not born in the States. Unbelievable.

"I think those you cite are bogus." Of course you do.

"I could counter each one but it would be a waste of time." Exactly, it would be a waste of time because I could find a source and counter back. You would say the source is not reliable, I would say... Can you see where this is going. Both sides are trying to win. Both sides are distorting the truth and making up inflamatory lies. It happens right on this blog. Best thing to do is decide who you are going to vote for and be done with it. I decided when the Dems through Hillary under the bus. So for me, it's just a little game of back and forth... kinda like ping pong.

I told you, emcee's got great style. Now it's the old "I used to be a Democrat" (or at least "I might have considered voting Democrat once") ruse. You know, to establish some level of "credibility" like they have carefully weighed all sides of the argument and have come to their current understanding through logic and reason. I have decided who to believe is a liar (emcee) and be done with it.

Avon, first you come on a critisize, rightfully so the yelling etc that each side uses to try to win over the other, but then you call someone a liar. Does that make you part of the problem?

ttgb, I am neither part of the problem nor the solution, just riffing off the ludicrous fallacies in emcee's statements for comedic value. It's the internet, nothing will be solved here in this swamp and if you think the opposite I would suggest that you re-assess.

Well, that really convinced me. And everyone else I'm sure.

let's open up this discussion. I saw an interview with Scully: The World Show. who interviewed Elaine Kamarck: She has written a book on "Primary Politics: How Presidential Nominations are now Won or Lost." She had some original things to say about Obama/Hillary contest and would, I think, have a different take than the one you took (Emcee) on "the Dems throwing Hillary Under the Bus." You can watch it on "Scullytheworldshow.com. It's on PBS, once a week, Mondays at 2:30 pm. Usually I don't like him but she was fascinating, has a good mind. His topic usually is entrepreneurs.
So quit your bellyaching and hate of the Democrats and watch that and maybe look at the book, since it seems you have so much time on your hands. I'll see if I can post the link.
I do disagree about many of your 'awful insults" about Obama. This is not a "little game." And anyone who sees this as a game, is doing themselves a disservice. Each vote counts, if only to the voter. Thousands and thousands may be denied their vote in Nov. Shame on those Republican operatives, lawyers, and attorneys general behind this.

Peace.

What are we going to do with ourselves on November 7th? Just have to go back to swatting flies, I guess.

Agreed. I think most everything has been covered and exhausted. Peace back at you and may the best candidate win......for all our sakes.

Gretchen, Is this a tacit admission that you are a Marxist? Just asking, FWIW.

I'll use part of DJ's comment above: "I think most everything has been covered and exhausted. Peace back at you and may the best candidate win......for all our sakes."

Can't say it better than that. I think enthusiasm on both sides is beginning to wane.

Looks can be deceiving. I tend to believe there are some fundamental, short and long term strategies that are always at work in our government and extend beyond whatever party is in office; we just never get to know the details. Think money, spying, counterspying, friendly nations, "axis of evil" characterizations, "all options are on the table" utterances, etc., ... all designed to assure US superiority and safety and the cooperation of US allies. The President and his most top advisors know the details that even Congress will never know. Under the Constitution, the president has the sole authority to make or break treaties with other sovereignties.
His "snub", as you put it, could be an attempt to have Iran let its guard down ... or for some other reason we may think is totally unrelated. We don't know everything and the reasons why, and in my opinion, we don't need to know everything.