At least his daughter had the guts to be seen at the RNC. Scott was hiding under a chair.

I have to admit, the only speech I saw in it's entirety was Condoleezza Rice . I thought she was phenomenal. Maybe 2020?

As usual, lot's of "love" in this comment.

“Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair was weird.”

The empty chair was the focal point of the monologue. A theatrical prop that is often used.
Now, one could see it as: the chair is as empty as Obama… or the Presidential seat will soon be empty. Either way works for me. But, if you didn’t get it, you didn’t get it. Theatrics are not for everyone.
Do you remember the Greek columns of the 2008 Dem convention? And the smoke? And the halos? Now that wasn’t even good theatrics.

"’God's law before human law.’ You okay with that???” Better than “God damn America”. Apart from that, I think the Obamas attend church… so I’m guessing he’s a man of God. You okay with that?

“…but their hatred and racism of Obama.” Oh my, I think you better get the word out to Condoleeza Rice and Artur Davis, they don’t seem to realize what’s going on.

A real sufferer of Bush derangement syndrome. NO FAKE INDIANS!!!!!!

so, tin lizzy (Warren) is a carpetbagger, too, No?

Senator Rubio was just restating our founding principles in our founding documents. The Declaration of Independence is based on John Locke's natural rights theory that believes that government exists to protect individual rights. Those rights, according to Locke, are life, liberty, and property. He also explicitly believed that those rights came from nature and/or God.

Thomas Jefferson took that theory and pretty much codified it in the Declaration stating that men have the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (replaced property).

The founders never questioned that natural rights came from God. Senator Rubio was talking about the natural law theory that is the basis of our rights.

can someone explain how we can separate got from anything? I think it has been tried before.

The survival of Israel will be in grave danger if O BAMA wins this election !

I totally agree with you on all points until the write in Denise. Please look here before you do that.
http://www.dailypaul.com/248500/presidential-write-in-laws-by-state

I finally got a chance to watch Rubio's speech and I agree, he did an excellent job. We were probably listening to a future president. He certainly has the polish for it.

You need to take a look at an Electoral Map that shows which states are red or blue or otherwise. The entire south including Texas (more than a few Hispanics there) are considered Republican strongholds. The Dems have the coasts, east and west.

The Republican had quite a few Hispanic speakers at their recent convention and nearly as many women as men speakers. You are misled if you think Republicans are alienating people all over the place. The polls (for what they are worth) have both candidates neck to neck.

The Republicans could easily win this thing.

Gretchen: In the case of an unwanted baby, what would you say if science has evolved to a place where both the life of the mother and the life of the unborn can be preserved? In other words, Mom is no longer required for incubation. Do you still insist the baby must go?

Ahhh the hail mary of abortion speak - the truly last great gasp of a drowning concept - good luck with that - it hasn't (and won't) ever worked yet.

Both parties have alienated lots of folks. It is time to look in a NEW direction. Fiscal conservancy and social tolerance. Vote for Gary Johnson 2012.

is there a more EMBEDDEDrelationship than a little person growing inside another person?
Now that is and embedded relationship, a fragile, terrifying, amazing, life affirming relationship...we have to humble ourselves enough to see her/her dignity at such an early stage of life. PAX

Make a decision about their own body....with someone else's money.

MSNBC and then another site. Here's the Atlantic Wife.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/08/romneys-birther-joke-explained-one-number-he-needs-61-white-vote-win/56192/
or here:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/27/will-paul-ryan-help-romney-with-blue-collar-whites.html

Ahh the 'dog whistle' (Dem term) of 'let them eat cake' - code speak of a revolution? Bring it on baby!

Shouldn't we just get rid of ALL loop holes? What does income have to do with it?

"...you are ignorant of the way the system works."

So, in your opinion, how does the system work?

As for the Republican convention, it was the presentation, the tone, the theme, the overall message of Americans can do better than living on handouts from the rich. We can do better than to have 50% of the people working being taxed to support the other 50% who are not. Socialism is not the answer for the United States.

The specific content of many of the speeches I do not recall at all except for Clint Eastwood. He was the comic relief, but he got his message out: when a person does not know how to do their job, you replace them.

About the economy spiralling downward in 2008, you are correct. Many hoped this President could turn it around, but alas, he could not and did not even with a fully Democratic congress until 2010. Two years where he could pass anything he wanted and all he did was raise the debt alarmingly.

The question is always: Are you better off today than in 2008? For me the answer is no, food and fuel prices have easily doubled... basics for the poor and middle class. Do I want to risk another four years of this malaise? No. I'll take a chance that the Republicans with all their warts can turn this cumbersome economy around.

Agreed Steve .. since, as you say, .."both parties will pronounce pretty much whatever will get them elected." I highly recommend EVERYONE that is dissatisfied with the 2 'red carpet' options to look into Gary Johnson. Gary Johnson has been an outspoken advocate for efficient government, balanced budgets, rational drug policy reform, protection of civil liberties, comprehensive tax reform, and personal freedom. As Governor of New Mexico, Johnson was known for his common sense business approach to governing. He eliminated New Mexico's budget deficit, cut the rate of growth in state government in half, and privatized half of the state prisons.

Here is something which is never mentioned in the "abortion debate". We have had 50,000,000 abortions since legalizations (more people than there are in Canada). The overwhelming majority of women involved are middle class housewives. Shouldn't the husband at least have to sign off on the abortion? Are father's rights "ex vitro"?

Grethen: People had similar concerns about IVF. Many still do.
Ever read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley? Fun read. Might be a good choice for a Patch book club choice.

don't agree with you that a developing fetus is not a baby.
And the pictures that we have, thanks to modern science, tell a different story too.
"Traditionally, when the fetus draws breath at birth it is called a baby." That's not true. A woman carries a child, a baby. When the baby is born, they are called a newborn or an infant or even a baby. She knows that she is not carrying a zygote while she watches her developing baby grow. When she feel the kicks of an 8 month old in utero, she knows that it is more than a zygote or a fetus. It is new life. A new human being different from any other human being on the face of the earth. You think about your baby, and you talk to your doctor about your baby. The OB/GYN doesn't ask the mother what her plans are for birthing the fetus. They use the term "baby" because they know that it's a baby.

"...unemployment to 8%..." If you're lucky, it's 8%. If you are Black, it's 14.4%, if you are a Black youth it's 39.3%... White youth 20.9%. In this economy, life is mean and tough for some groups.

"...Europe self destructs..." Why is Europe self destructing? First clue: they are very socialistic. Free health care for all, pensions starting early and lasting long, cradle to grave government handouts. That works okay as long as you have someone to tax the bejesus out of, but when the revenue source slows down and the entitlements pick up, chaos and bankruptcy steps in.

"...Republican led congress..." Always remember, that for the first two years of Obama's administration, the Democrats controlled both the Senate and HR. In 2010, the Republicans were elected in an effort to stop the crazy spending, and it worked somewhat. The Democrats still control the Senate.

The Presidency is a very important job, and it isn't for amateurs. If Obama wins, it will be by a very narrow margin which means at least 49% of the country will be against him. Congress will remain the same. It will be a messy four years with an economy going off in any and every direction with no guidance. God bless all of us.

First Point: And? The unemployment rate was reduced by four percent and the economy was saved from a depression.

Second Point: Europe is self destructing because of the Euro and policy on the Euro has to be determined by 17 countries. Irresponsible spending by Greece and Spain's real estate boom and bust brought Europe to an economic slow down, not because of "socialism". It's rather ironic that you criticize them, because they have higher HDI's. Their socialist healthcare is half as expensive and many European countries have longer life expectancy than we do.

Third point: The first two years were spent for TARP, Stimulus, bailouts for the auto and financial industries. Basically, cleaning up Bushes mess. All that crazy spending, you know, saving 2 million jobs and financial failure. Furthermore, the republicans don't care about how much they spend, as Bush and Reagan both added trillions to the national debt and Bush borrowed for every federal budget for 8 years.

Final point: Romney winning would be a tragedy, considering he's posturing for war with Iran, going to cut medicare and medicaid, and refuses to touch the DOD budget which is larger than the next 42 countries combined, 36 of which are our allies. We have been promised that somehow more tax cuts for the wealthy and more war will bring us to prosperity. You seem to buy it. The only thing you'll get after all this trickle down economics is table scraps. God bless us all.

Politifact left the "reliable" and "unbiased" station several years ago...

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/30/politifact-bias-does-the-gop-tell-nine-times-more-lies-than-left-really/

Yes...ooops!, got name wrong. Everyone here should jump to that site for some accurate re-alignment of the facts espoused by the GOP and DEMS. You can't believe most of the crap they profess during the campaigns and then their conventions.

Women can get help right now at Planned Parenthood. The GOP wants to do away with Planned Parenthood and that is wrong.

paul: I have not heard of any real momentum by Republicans to do away with planned parenthood. It is the funding they feel should end. And maybe they're right on this issue. I think the direction we are heading is going to require clinics to serve all members of a community. And since the middle class income does not seem to be keeping up with the prices of goods and services, many of us may need these local clinics. Not good news. But it is what it is.

"...get medical care for free?"

Are you suggesting that medicare or medicaid provide women with kind of highly specialized and very expensive service? I don't really think so. You're lucky to find a doctor who'll take on another medicaid patient for general medicine.

Oh so now we see the real objective - Abortion = Birth Control = a Right to Women. If you can't feed them, don't breed them - I love how PP has become a place for women's health - everyone knows you go to PP for an abortion NOT a cancer screening, of course they will smear your pap while in the stirrups, but that is a far cry from the forceps.

I am sure there are plenty of doctors that are sympathetic but afraid to have that label and/or afraid of being blown up by some wacko anti-choice person.

to :Deb of see-attleboro...."It is what it is" what the heck does that mean, that youare not willing to sound off to our Congressmen and women about this issue. That's what it sounds like. Don't let it be "It is what it is" - go out and raise some hell with our gov't reps. Protest, speak up. Just sounding out here on Patch alone is not going to fix things. It's a start...but keep it going.

May 2012 Gallop poll: pro life 50%, pro abortion 41%. Nuff said. Public funding to planned parenthood supports abortion. More than half the country is pro life. As a christian, abortion is morally reprehensible to me. Why should I be forced to pay for abortions that I morally disagree with? Where are my rights? Rape issue aside, if you want an abortion then take responsibility and pay for and stop hassling me top pay for it. I am sick to death of your demagoguery.

Scuze me Soxfan, but that is a skewed comment. The May 2012 Gallup pole you refer to depicts the question of personal choice asked after the question of "should abortion be legal", which was answered as 52% under certain circumstances, 25% under all circumstances and 20% ILLegal under all circumstances. Enough said? Don't think so. The polls reflect exactly were I am. I do not personally see abortion as an alternative for myself, but I do not feel I should dictate another persons choice except for late term options based on the science at hand.
Additionally, your position does not exclude a women's right to choose exclusive of financing but for all, so don't even try to play that ridiculous card.

So DJ, the diference between you and me is that I believe life is not a choice with the exception of rape (which I struggle with). And I will fight not to be forced to pay for it by the state. Your arguement allows no place for my rights not to have to pay for abortions. As for the poll, it says 51% of people, when asked, opposed abortions. Spin the numbers as you will. The Dems platform says all abortions without limitations. That's extreme. To be fair, the Rebups say no abortions at all in their platform. Romney says; except in the case of rape, which I struggle with, but agree with for now.

"...an unwanted child."

Just wondering... does it ever occur to the mother of said child that the 'good half' is carrying her genes, is in fact her child as well? So now we have a woman who has to live with the memory of discarding a child, or giving birth to a child that reminds her every day of that awful event: the rape. Either way, the child is the loser. How about giving birth to the child and letting someone else raise it... adoption.

Emcee. you have a point. Why in the day of birth control have we had 50 million abortions? Is abortion just another form of birth control?

When ever I hear of Planned Parenthood, I wonder at how things change. If you Google Margaret Sanger you will find pictures of her speaking to the women's auxilliary of the KKK. Her original message was racist/eugenics. Her real desire was to eliminate black babies, her early speeches are decidedly racist. When the Nazi's decided on racial purification, they came to the U.S. to look into the eugenics work done by Sanger and her associates and the eugenics laws they promulgated. This is all recorded history, why do we never hear of it? Google the "eugenics" craze of the early 20th century.

Patricia - you cannot believe all that convention rhetoric, by either party! there is no guarantee that any of that will get done. Our 'do nothing' congress gets to do that. Both parties want what is better for America.
Romney said he has paid 13% of his income in taxes! He earns millions a year- doesn't that put him in a much higher tax bracket. Congress needs to get rid of all the loop holes. But which party is really gooing to push that agenda???

ttgb: I agree that we need the majority of our citizens to be self sufficient. I have a sister in New Hampshire who is getting closer to that. She's a special ed teacher at a high school in a town about the size of Seekonk and at age 66 just pulled out her bike so she can bike to and from work. She grows nearly all the food she eats. She started raising chickens last year for the eggs. Here in Massachusetts we import 80% of our food. Food growing is certainly an area where we need self-sufficiency at the state or regional level if not at the family level.

"We need to make things in this country again!"

I remember a Cuban telling me that Cubans thought Prof. RegUSPatOff was the smartest man in the United States. Everything they bought was marked "Reg. US Pat. Off."

Tisiphone:
Agreed about making things in this country again.
You remember that when India was engaged in its struggle for independence from British colonial rule, Indians stopped wearing clothing made by factory workers in England and went back to spinning and making their own homespun clothes. It didn't make sense to purchase from factory workers in Manchester when millions of Indians were unemployed. I'm not suggesting that we need to do spinning, but that we create a modern-day equivalent. We've got closets full of unused clothing that could be refashioned, updated or tailored to fit or turned into quilts or quilted window shades and lots of stay at home moms who are handy with sewing machines.

They want to keep the Riff Raff overseas...so they have taken the war to them. They are radical nut cases who have sworn to annihilate the US.....If you allow them to build up an arsenal....followers...arm them...which will happen if the US leaves...they will just be HERE down the road attacking us from within'.....That's why they are spending billions to fight them there.....We've shaken the proverbial hornets nest and now we have to be defensive....
With that being said...I've always wondered why the haven't build a water pipeline or river way from the great lakes to the midwest with several reservoirs along the way...supplying the entire midwest corn and wheat growers with unlimited water....and who would build it....EVERYONE...from the Army Cops Of Engineers to private contractors.......and less...both candidates have much to be desired....

Roger, How do you know what God intended? You sound like the reason so many people are Democrats. I don't know one single lady in her right or left mind that would take your side.

Goldman Sachs was chosen to survive over Lehman Brother's in September of 2008. George Bush made the choice for Goldman Sachs to survive. Guess who headed the US Treasury under his administration. Yep, Henry Paulson, Secretary of the United States Treausury 7/10/06 to 1/19/09. Prior to being the Secretary of the Treasury he was the Chairman and CEO of............. wait for it .......... Goldman Sachs. Come on now! Check your facts. This whole economy blew up thanks to deregulation under Bush as he was advised by his buddies at Goldman Sachs.

Sarek: You're more likely to hit your head on disposable plastic bottles that haven't been properly recycled :)

Gretchen
As a women I believe we all have personal responsibilty. I do not need you or anyone else to take control of my body. Of all of the unwanted pregnancies in th US, less than 5 % of those who got pregnant used birth control on a consist basis. Can you imagine what would happen to a man who went before congress and asked for someone to purchase his condems? I have no problem and am a firm believer in bc, but also do not believe we should force those who do not believe in it to pay for it for me. We call it choice.

ttgb, good for you. Everytime I hear of the 50 Million U.S. abortions performed since th 1970's, I wonder "what happened to birth control". I can remember travelling in the South ("Bible Belt") just before the "sexual revolution". Being raised in the Northeast, I was shocked to find condom vending machines in the rest rooms. Maybe we are still locked in a form of regionalism.

I fear that Gretchen is severely indoctrinated and repeats without thought. Classifying squirrel "mating habits" as "gang rape". Are cats that come home pregnant "rape victims" or just "easy"? "When the monotheistic religions came along women were considered just breeders for the "male seed" (they didn't know about the female contribution to conception." What a suprise! They also thought the function of the brain was to make nasal mucus.

From my monotheistic religion:
A woman and a man are co-creators of new life. They co-create with God who is the creator of all things. That new life has a soul from the moment of conception, a soul who has been created in the image and likeness of God. I suspect, that if I spent the rest of my life reading all that my Catholic faith teaches about the role and dignity of woman, that I would be reading still as I draw my dying breath. Theology of the Body is one such document that lays out God's plan for human sexuality, in all it's beauty.
And I believe that countries that provide birth control and access to abortion for women are actually "uncivilized" in the truest sense of the word. Think about how uncivilized it is to end a human life in the womb. It's not a "potential life" in the womb when a woman becomes pregnant....it is life. Pregnancy is not a disease. It's the beginning of life. Unplanned pregnancies are not at all/or always, "unwanted." Women throughout history have been surprised by an "unplanned" pregnancy. I remember when I was first asked in the hospital whether one of my pregnancies was "unplanned". I laughed at the question and figured it was PP infiltrating W&I.
Being open to life is the way that God wants married couples to be. It's not so bad. Don't be sold a "bill of goods" about contraception. Contraception is not the be all and end all. It doesn't mean that if you're contracepting, you are somehow a wiser person.

For you to say Democrats are extreme Atheist Zealots makes me wonder what you are. Are you a right wing fanatic? Sounds like your church is mixed up with your state.

Read again, paul. I wrote that the Democratic party is controlled by extremist Atheist zealots This is my perception. It is no different than those who say the Republican party is controlled by right wing religious fanatics and the tea party.

Gretchen,
Where did I say the goverment was paying for it? I simply said those who do not believe in it should not be forced to ay for it. For example a Catholic college should not be forced to pay for birth control or abortions under their insurance. If you don't like that you can elect to go to a different school or employer. Once again we call that choice. In fairness it seems to me that you are misinformed.

What would Jesus do if her were Republican?
Don't know, probably try to reduce the deficit.
What would Satan do if her was a Democrat?

"What would Jesus do if her were Republican?"

Tricky question… kind of like Eastwood talking to an empty chair.

First the platitudes:
She would be benevolent and kind.
She would genuinely love America and want its people to prosper.
She would make us all believe in our worth and ability to achieve if we stand together.

Now, an excerpt from Romney’s speech…

"…optimism is uniquely American. It's what brought
us to America. We're a nation of immigrants, we're the children
and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the ones who wanted
a better life. The driven ones. The ones who woke up at night,
hearing that voice telling them that life in a place called
America could be better.
They came, not just in pursuit of the riches of this world,
but for the richness of this life. Freedom, freedom of
religion, freedom to speak their mind, freedom to build a life…"

"As an independent voter you can bet I am voting on election day to oust these Chicago thugs out of office..."

CHEERS !!! CHEERS !!!

First step, vote Chicago out. The clean up and restoration will be in good hands.

I agree Paul. I always let actors, whether they be young or old, sway my political thinking. Your not just a Liberal Democrat. Your a "Moonbat".

Clint Eastwood is an actor. Did it ever occur to you that he was acting? I did not, for one minute, find him pathetic. He got his message across in a very different but memorable way, that is "If a man can't do the job he's been hired for, you let him go." Empty chair. Beautiful.

"If I wasn't already a Democrat..." Paul, you will always be a Democrat because you don't dare to think out of the box. Takes effort to come around to new ideas.

good posts, thanks

"'...neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.'"

Are you saying the disciples were communists?

And for heaven's sake check the depth of the water before you jump in.

for people of the Jewish Faith who have written here, I offer this as a way for people to have the important and necessary conversations. http://ajjpboston.org/home/
Also want to suggest Non-Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg. www.nvc.org

The problem, IMO, with communism is that it promotes mediocrity. Could a Bill Gates or Steve Jobs ever been allowed to thrive in the USSR of 1950’s or 60’s? In a regime where incentive is not encouraged, and dissension is punished severely, everything is uniformly gray: the faces, the clothes, the sky, the minds. The price is too high to pay for equality. I prefer take hand-me-downs from the wealthy.

Now, in the context of this particularly string, I’m not sure I understand what you are suggesting with these thoughts. Obama is often considered a Socialist. I don’t think that political philosophy will play too well in America. Not for long, anyway.

I was always taught that communism is a political and economic philosophy that does not accept the idea of free will and liberty. There is absolutely no room for dissension.

The disciples willingly dropped everything and took up the cross to follow Jesus. They may have lived communally. But that does not make them communist.

Sarek, maybe you're spending too much time under and your brain oxygen deprived:)

As for Israel; Obama approved the democrats’ platform which removed the language about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. He also allowed and approved removal of additional pro-Israel language; " The United States and its Quartet partners should continue to isolate Hamas until it renounces terrorism, recognizes Israel’s right to exist, and abides by past agreements. Sustained American leadership for peace and security will require patient efforts and the personal commitment of the President of the United States. The creation of a Palestinian state should resolve the issue of Palestinian refugees by allowing them to settle there, rather than in Israel. “The he was forced to put the language back in when Fox News found it was removed and reported it. The other language was not put back. The vote to put it back the Israeli capital language and the word "God" was so embarrassing for the Dems. The Democrats actually showed their true colors in resisting putting the language regarding “God “back in the party platform. It took three votes and they clearly did not have a 2/3rds margin to approve. It actually sounded like the motion on Israel and God actually failed but the Dems ordered the vote to approve ratified. If you need further convincing, the language announcing that the vote passed by a 2/3rds margin, was pre-written and caught on a TV image of a teleprompter. Get off the Kool-Aid.

Romney fell on his face in the whole trip to Europe and Israel. He's not ready for prime time. To imply that Obama doesn't support Israel defies comprehension. He's a longtime, strong supporter of Israel and to suggest otherwise, is character assassination.

Romney simply restated what the Brits had said about their own security for the Olympic Games. Having turned around a failing Olympics, surely he does have the qualification to comment on this.

"Jul. 14, 2012 - President Barack Obama came into office in 2009 pledging to push hard for an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal. The Post’s Scott Wilson explains that Obama wanted to restore America’s reputation as a credible mediator in the long conflict, and in doing so, the president believed he needed to regain Arab trust and talk tough to Israel."

Washington Post

I believe Obama and Netanyahu are at odds with one another.

Communism, Leninism, Marxism, Stalinism, all these isms are variations of the same theme: Socialism. The Nazis took a step further in their National Socialism and implemented racism. The Aryan race was the master race. Blue-eyed, blond perfection. Übermensch.
The Russians are a long suffering people. God bless them, they suffered under the czars, the Bolsheviks, Stalin, etc. etc. etc. Before the Revolution there was an educated class, an intelligentsia, an upper class if you will, but the Bolsheviks replaced them with the lowest common denominator. Maybe in the past thirty years or so, they’ve turned it around. I don’t see them on the world stage too much… but I’m not in academia.
“And the world could certainly use a bit more mediocrity.” That is something I will never agree with, but we could do with less philosophers.

" If you want to see a socialist state look to Sweden "

Keep a better eye on the news. Socialism worked well enough in Sweden when 99% of the population was blue-eyed, blonde, protestants. With the recent influx of a few Muslims the system seems to be coming apart rapidly. They will probably get another 40-50 years out of it, but there is a movement to prevent immigration.

Canada is not the best example, I am sure there will be another "rising" in Quebec within 4-5 years. Why aren't they all happy?

"If you want to see a socialist state look to Sweden or Canada."

Sweden, Belgium, England, yes. Canada not much more than the U.S. The only thing they provide for their people that we currently do not is health care.

I think Romney was a great governor!
Are you telling me President Obama as not changed position or played to the base?
Let's start with gay marraige.
as far as the bills in congress if there is one thing I could change it woul be be one bill one vote. Now we are stuck with tons of things rolled into one bill which gives both sides the opportunity to walk away from their votes by saying I voted for it because this was in the bill or voted against it for the same reason.

well said, Carol. I have a dread of totalitarianism esp. in this time of the erosion of privacy and the hypermilitarization the US.
Totalitarianism, like theocracy, sets itself up as all powerful and forces others to obey its dictates. Early Communism in Russia quickly was put aside for collectivization and militarization and became totalitarian. Stalin was a ruthless dictator and tyrant. Ancient Rome was a Republic for a while but with the Caesars, it became totalitarian. The Caesars all powerful tyrants--and corrupt. No form of government is immune to corruption. It's something we have to constantly guard against, especially now with PAC money pouring into elections compliments of Americans United ruling made by the SCOTUS. Or as Romney said, "Corporations are people, my friend." Seems like we're heading for something that's being called a Corporatocracy (I know it's a mouthful) rather than the democracy we hold dear.

Communism, Marxism, Maoism, Socialism, Nazism, Stalinism, facism, etc. are political philosophies. A way to govern people, run a state. They are about economies also because that is a serious part of governing a country, but it's not only that. It's mind control. It's social engineering. It's suppression.

I agree that many socialist countries are well run.

When?

that's looney. If it's true, then why are so many American Jews going to vote for Obama?? Provide some facts or stop spreading discord.

Gretchen, Jews have a long history for voting democrat. Traditiiiioooon!
Don't try to make that about Obama.

Cardinal Dolan has endorsed Mitt Romney for president ! Listen to the leaders of the church !

Not offer, but make it free - ours is now free with GIC - government insurance paying for anyone's birth control, now all they have to do is get you to think abortion is birth control and now you have government insurance paying for abortions - got it?

Gretchen, I think you have a tendancy to confuse ethnicity with religion. Jews, Blacks, Irish and Italians were all induced into the Democratic party by ward heelers generations ago when they were "inner city" dwellers, it is now part of their heritage. They may NOT VOTE for a Democrat, but to actually VOTE FOR a Republican is a big step. Efforts to "get out the youth vote" have proven they vote as their parents would. As they have moved up the ladder and moved to "integrated" suburbs (Irish/Italian weddings are no longer "mixed marriages") political attitudes are changing. They change slowly. Perhaps Obama is an engine of such change.

Soros?

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." Revelations, King James Version. I am informed that this is a reference to Obama supporters.

Credit to Gretchen where due. There was, some few years ago, a church in Lincoln, RI where the minister based his sermons on anti-Semitism and other prejudices. I have heard his adherents rail on about how Jews have bankrupted every country they have "occupied". Their comments about Blacks were even less praiseworthy. I suspect this to be a very small sub-set of Christians. (I may be incorrect about Lincoln, but it was off Route 146)

The far left is anti semetic and anti israel. In their view you are the root of all evil.

"More to the point, newer translations are closer to the original. It really matters what version of the Bible you read and use"

If I am not mistaken, the "original" of the Bible was in Aramaic. What the early Christians (Catholics, via Constantine) settled on was the Greek translation, later translated to Latin. I am not sure that an original and accepted (as opposed to the Nag Hammadi gospels) Aramaic version of the Bible exists, so no matter what version, we are all at a distance from "the Word". I would suggest that any modern translation from the ancient Aramaic would be speculative.

Gretchen:
If one is confident in one's own faith and religious beliefs, there is no call to criticize those of others. The modern American Civil Rights Movement demonstrated that. Dr. King and other leaders of the nonviolent struggle did not spend their time denouncing Southern Baptists as evil. Instead, they took their understanding of Hebrew scriptures and the Gospels and mobilized huge numbers of people on behalf of justice and equality. They looked for commonalities, not what divides:

"This call for a world-wide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one’s tribe, race, class and nation is in reality a call for an all-embracing and unconditional love for all men. This often misunderstood and misinterpreted concept has now become an absolute necessity for the survival of man. When I speak of love, I am speaking of that force which all the great religions have seen as the supreme unifying principle of life. Love is the key that unlocks the door which leads to ultimate reality. This Hindu-Moslem-Christian-Jewish-Buddhist belief about ultimate reality is beautifully summed up in the First Epistle of Saint John:

'Let us love one another: for love is of God: and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love….If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.'"

"Never seen anything so disgusting in Sharon !"
That only means you haven't lived there long enough. In the 70's a real estate broker refused to take an offer on a house because I wasn't Jewish, explaining "You wouldn't be happy here". I had no idea of Sharon's ethnic make-up. I didn't get it until the broker was featured on a national news show, I believe it was "60 Minutes". To be fair, the Jews in Sharon had only recently been pushed out of Boston by action of the Mayor and City Council. I didn't know about that at the time either. (There is an interesting book about that)

Then, of course, there was that little problem with the Muslims about 15 years ago.

I think it is ok to let her speak her piece. We do not need to edit everything and be politically correct. It is a discussion forum and she is entitled to her opinion just as you are entitled to yours.

You are a religious fanatic, nothing wrong with that, America is still free at the moment. I believe in Narnia just like you. See, we are both off the hook.

Since Christianity has the largest number of followers globally, some people might want to know what makes us tick. Perhaps, then, they won't be so fearful of us.

People of faith, not just Christians, are always being smeared. I just thought some Patch users might want some insight from a man of Lewis' stature instead of listening to those who just don't get it.
.

you heard, you heard....sounds like a smear. Got any facts. Or are you going to repeat Reagan's "welfare queens" and other mythical creatures.

Yeah, it will end. States like California and RI with their cities in bankruptcy or on the brink of it, are beginning to feel the first winds of change. Handing out EBT cards like bubblegum cards and unemployment benefits that run on for years have got to stop. Will stop. Ask the people of Greece or Italy or Spain whatever happened to those wonderful socialist countries where the government (taxpayers) took care of every need: health, child care, schools, full pensions at 55, everything free. One thing that happened is that people who didn't pay a cent into the system began to move in from other more austere countries. Revenues got out of balance. Borrowing began. Default set in.

It will end and it won't be pretty.

"...it is awesome to see you talk yourself into circles."

LOL. Entertaining isn't it.

I am sorry Gretchen where have I ever used the word stupid. It seems to me if there is a bully in the crowd it would be you. You think and project like you speak for everyone, you are remarkably one sided, say bad things about entire groups and religions and we are the bad guys? Perhaps you should go reread your posts. We all have an opinion, some think we should be allowed to speak it others do not. I enjoy a spirited debate and love to hear facts from both sides. So now a voucher program is bullying? Geeze louise it is so good to know that you are open to new ideas! For the record I am the one who defended you having a right to your opinion.

"I must be doing something right!! I have the whole gang of you telling me how stuuupid I am."

I would not take that as assurance that you are right. When everyone tells you that you are wrong, chances are very high that they are correct. There are famous incidents where the contrary is true, that is why those incidents are famous.

You then bring in "bullying". I do not favor it, but it has been with us since the beginning of time. In the animal kingdom, it is referred to as Darwinism. It is so much a part of the human condition that it's elimination seems doubtful. Perhaps repression of it will result in some sort of Social Darwinism that will cause it to change in form.

In your next post you offer:
"Romney on climate change....he's a joke." There is adequate scientific evidence to suggest that "climate change" (remember when it "Global Warming") is a joke. At least to the extent that it is caused by man and not a natural occurrence. That Romney may have an opinion different from yours does not make it a joke.

If you have forgotten "Global Warming" try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZrhG2iT3H0

This is an example of you not being a bully, he is a joke but I mean it with all due respect. Not that you disagree, not that you have a counter point, just that he is a joke. In school you would likely be the one kicked out, just sayin of course

Actually linda, the ACA does take monies from medicare but they come not from premiums or entitlements, rather cost savings cutbacks almost all Americans have been begging for. You should read the following to learn where the 700 B is coming from and what will actually happen to it and medicare under Romney:
http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/health_stew/2012/08/the_romney-ryan_700b_disagreem.html?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed1

Your living in your heyday, the fifties. The average life span then was late sixties. It's now the lower eighties. 65 is the new 50. Hand outs should not begin at 65. If you want to retire early, you should have gotten a job at the T. You could have retired 15 years ago.
And if you think we're the only superpower? Check out what China and Russia have been doing lately.
Obuma has destroyed NASA to the point that we have to catch a ride with the Russian's to the space station. And you can thank your lucky stars that all that money was sunk into the military. It gives you the right to air your Moonbat views.

Not really Gretchen. Ryan and Romney do not agree with this and Ryans plan disposes of all the ACA which would bring back over 140 B in expenses through 2016 assuming medicare B is back in place. Romney has yet to provide his answer to the cutback and ACA resolution, but non of his initiatives have alligned with Ryans.

Tellingitlikeitis: Romney's entire foundation has been based on privatization, yet you blame Obama for attempting to bolster same with an ill fated NASA who's mere existence has been criticized and defunded by the right since the 80's?

"That's why we're upset with China, they are about to own us."

We are right on the brink... that is why so many people rushed to the Republicans and elected so many in the mid-term elections. Nobody cares about the Teaparty movement, not I anyway. The Republicans were elected to Congress to jam a stick in the spokes, to stop the frightening debt. Can you imagine an unknown Republican such as Scott Brown taking a Kennedy seat as Senator? For this state, it is shocking. But that's how frightened and desperate people became. We cannot take on any more debt.

We'll see if people trust Obama for another four years. He will not have an easy time of it and might even face impeachment if missteps. Best that he sails off into the sunset. He's made his millions. He's got his spot in history. Let him retire someplace that has good golf courses.

Dear Gretchen , Your comments are thoughtful and we do hear them . I work for Romney and wish you would consider joining his team .

Are you for real, Paul? Is the Romney camp that desperate?

"...it was Bush II who drove up the deficit to the sky."

The national debt is an easy lookup: As of 9/30/08 debt= 10 Trillion
9/30/09 " 12 Trillion
9/30/10 " 13.5 Trillion
8/2012 " 16 Trillion

yeah.. and we spend more than china, UK, japan, russia, germany, Saudi, india, brazil and france.... combined. Yes, we police the world, but it is out of control.

I agree with everything you say, but a peacetime army doesn't incur injuries. And like someone else said, we need to stop policing the world.

After Afghanistan (and the sooner the better) where are all those young people going to find jobs? Will these people come home to endless unemployment benefits? Romney's idea of beefing up the military might be just trying to ward off higher unemployment statistics. Obama, if he's wise, will try to do something similar. I realize a lot of today's soldiers come from National Guard ranks and might not want to go into the military. If nothing else, they should all be eligible for the GI bill for education.

Perhaps we should reconsider how we handle military service during times of war. We do the training, send people off to fight and then bring them back with the terrible wounds of war and the challenge of readjusting to family and civilian life. Many countries use their militaries to do important work at home. Why not make use of the energy, skills and camaraderie developed by our active duty soldiers to help rebuild some of our infrastructure? I could see part of military service including a guaranteed job for a year or two in a civilian corps that would provide meaningful work, a supportive environment for dealing with issues resulting from war, and a means of reintegrating successfully back into civilian life. Part of the cost of war should be returning those who serve back to some semblance of normalcy. Our infrastructure is crumbling and our veterans' services are woefully inadequate. Why not match the two?

Nope, God was not invited to that frenetic, chaotic rally of freaks, as Monica Crowley called it. I caught only bits of it because, to me, it was hard to watch speakers screaming and punching at the air over the din of the crowd. I couldn't understand what they were saying. God bless America would never be uttered by this group.

I can't imagine a civilized Democrat such as John Kerry or Bill Clinton feeling comfortable among them.

Let me backtrack a bit on what I mean when I say 'peacetime army'. To me, it is something like the National Guard, only better trained. They are a standby army/navy/airforce only to be used if necessary to defend our interests. If we are attacked, we are in a position to defend. In defending, there will be injuries, but at least we are not the aggressor as we were recently in Iraq... and then Afganistan.

"...the US has shaken the proverbial hornets nest and the fine folks from the middle east are pissed at the US..."

I agree 100%. Besides Iraq and Afganistan, we poked a stick into Egypt and Libya, further destabilizing the area. This is no time to get rid of the army. I believe Romney intends to keep it strong, Obama intends to draw it down.

"Why should we be over in Afghanistan still."

We should never have gone in there to begin with. As difficult as it is to see the burkas and watch the mistreatment of women and girls, I think we have to let it go unless we want to occupy that country forever. Syria is another boondogle. Why did that ever have to happen?

Maybe the subjects will come up in the debates. The hot topics right now are jobs and the economy.

Gretchen: I didn't watch last night. I did hear some snip-its. One was when Mrs Obama talked about the shame of slamming the door of opportunity behind you.

My first thought was "Didn't the party just ratify a platform that includes taxpayer funded abortion on demand?" .Seems to me a whole class called the unborn are having that door slammed.

.

The thing is, the baby/fetus doesn't stay an 8-cell zygote for very long. That might be the day after conception, and I'm all for the morning after pill. The baby/fetus develops rapidly. By the third month everything is in place for a human being. Do you just cut that out as if it were a cancer? I can live with abortion in the first trimester, second trimester makes me queasy, and late-term abortion (last trimester) is out and out murder. Women are often more damaged emotionally by late-term abortion than if they'd had the child and gave it up for adoption.

Emcee: I don't know how to get this after your entry but here goes.
I am queasy both with first and second term abortions. There's many myths and a mountain of anti-abortion propaganda out there esp. about 3rd semester abortions. And know that most women/couples seek a late abortion only for some extreme situation. No one is helped if both the woman and the fetus die. So to wade through, here's the Guttmacher Institute info on late term abortions. Just the facts.

The notion of giving up the child for adoption is a red herring. That has it's own issues. First of all carrying a child to term has it's own health risks. It is utter misinformation to say that women are 'damaged emotionally by late term abortions." If the abortion was necessary, the woman grieves and moves on, knowing she did what she had to do to preserve her life. Would you have her die to preserve your ideology?

The real problem is that there is no middle ground here. The far left would like abortions up to the day before child birth for any reason, the far right does not want them even in the event of rape or incest. The truth is most people want some middle ground. The problem if you read through the statistics (yes I use the same resources as you) is that abortion has become a form of birth control. I have no problem with women using, in fact I encourage women and men to use birth control. When less than 5% of those who have an unintended pregnanacy use birth control on a consistant basis and over half of those who get abortions each year have had at least one previous abortion, it seems to me there is a problem with woment taking responsibilty for their bodies. So by the numbers 1.2 million abortions a year and 600,000 of those women have had AT LEAST one other abortion. That to me is a problem. We as women can do MUCH better.

Erik Erickson is out of line. I can't picture who he is, but being released from CNN might be a good thing.

In important person in my life said "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything." Mitt is such a person, no core values.

As Ted Kennedy said, "I'm pro-choice and he's multiple choice". In important person in my life said "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything." Mitt is such a person, no core values.

What about Obama changing his mind? Mitt changed his mind on abortion, Obama on gay marraige.

To bring Ted Kennedy up as the pilar of the Democratic party is remarkable. It is amazing to me that he continued to be in public life and elected time and time again after Chappaquiddick.

By the way, Ted Kennedy was pro life before his pandering to the left forced him to change his position. Romney changed his position because he had a family member suffer through an abortion. He sought guidance from clergy, academis, family etc and after long and personal contemplation, he concluded abortion was wrong except to save the lfe of the mother and rape.

Gretchan , Thanks for your candid opinion , Mitt will work hard to earn your trust .

In fairness Mitt is no more right than Obama is left. Both will come more to the center in the general election imo.

Richard , The republican convention was a cival event so different from the dem convention where Romney has been called a fellon , murderer , nazi , and dog hater . Thanks for watching convention .

Didnt one delegate say that if she saw Mitt Romney she would kill him?

Paul, what do you mean by "labor Participation". I've never heard that phrase before. Do you mean union membership?

Because Choice in talking about schools really means everyone is on their own, instead of improving the quality in all schools. Many inner city people because of lack of transportation can't take advantage of other schools. Choice in reproductive decisions should be up to the mother. A mother just doesn't "have" a child, a mother is totally responsible for that child for years (think lion and a cub) so a lot more enters into the decision. Partial birth abortions are not allowed under any circumstances except when the life of the mother is at risk.

Richard you are somewhat misinformed on partial birth abortions it is life or health of the mother. The health includes stress etc and is quite broad. You also forget the abortion is not the only option. There is adoption and more importantly prevention for those who are not ready to parent yet.

Richard I could not disagree with you more about choice in schools. If schools had to work to get students to enroll it would make them more competive and raise the standards. Parents would look at which schools were performing and which were not. When you look at the cost per child in public schools particularly in the big cities you will see that it is quite high. We do a disservice to those who need it most when we do not allow choice in the schools.

IMO, I do not see how a Christian leader could endorse Obama at this point. They could remain silent. Might be better. But maybe not.
Lot's of confusion out there.

Many lost sheep.

Religious leaders should not be endorsing politicians. Nevertheless, the US Academy of Catholic Bishops did make a public statement that they felt Paul Ryan's budget hurt the poor and was not consistent with the teachings of Jesus.

I have not read any statements by the Academy. I did not even know such an organization existed.

Having said that, I would hope all Christian organizations would agree that it is not the job of politicians to be fiscally consistent with the teachings of Jesus.

As for the President's behavior being "un-Christian"? Again, this is a matter of perception. Very individual..

and I agree with the Catholic Bishops and the nun (on the bus!) at the Democratic Convention who made this statement. This IMO is true Catholicism and true Christianity. I'm not Catholic so I'm not going to speak for Catholics. Christians are going to have to decide if they favor the wealthy who had to give up their wealth to enter the Kingdom of Heaven or if they are going to choose to support the 1% or 2% who want MORE wealth. I know where I stand. I have "a preferential option for the poor" as the Liberation Theologists put it when they sought political and religious self determination and dignity (and food and healthcare) for the poor in Central and South America.
Most of the people on these listservs would do well to explore how their religion supports or doesn't support human flourishing in other countries. There's a narrowing of focus down to just the USA that ill serves us as Americans and as people of Faith.

Gretchen: I assume you are referring to Matthew 19:16-26. I would be very careful about referring to Biblical text. That particular passage may not mean what you think it means. The popular interpretation is that Jesus was condemning those who were wealthy just for being wealthy. That wealth in itself is a sin. Not true.

The Catholic church has changed so much over time that it is now better thought of as a philosophy than a religion. Gretchen makes a point about a Catholic position on wealth and heaven. When the Popes were secular rulers, this never occurred to them. The Church only sought out the poor after it lost secular power about 300 years ago. For 2000 years they have ignored the Semite ethnicity of "the Virgin" and pictured her as European. The same may be said for their imagery of Jesus. Now, 75% of Catholics are Latin American, or African. Expect a Pope "of color" shortly and a continuing change in attitudes. Of many prominent points in the faith, male clergy, abortion, homosexuality and celibacy, only their position on homosexuals is textually demonstrable in scripture. As they believe that life is the gift of God, than their position follows naturally and cannot be logically faulted. Those who disagree might properly be described as heretics. "It's a wonderful day for an auto de fe".

Some people (I am an unregistered voter) believe late-term abortions to be murder and I am one of them. Abortion should not be used as a form of birth control. With all the birth control and morning-after-pills available today, we shouldn't even need to discuss abortion.

I read Mr. Barrett's post and noted his comment that Mr. McCain has never studied history. He then follows with "a Christian war cry (a contradiction in terms?)". Well Mr. Barrett, read a little history. Learn about "God wills it" and "Burn them all, God will know his own".
" I post this to remind us that whatever our religion, we have no excuse to hate." Just about now,it might be more efficacious to translate that to Arabic and post it in the middle East.
I am not sure what "craven remarks" you attribute to Mr. Romney. I would suggest that learning to hate those people who would murder our representatives might be the first advance toward wisdom. Let's face it, this was not murder that occurred through some malevolent spontaneity, it was murder aforethought. They came equipped with automatic weapons and RPG's, this was not a dissent gone wrong.

I would prefer that the Libyans brought them to justice. As Mr. Bush said "Peace is not the absence of war, it is the presence of justice". I think Libya fails of the that standard. So, I must give the nod to Mr. Bush again "If he cannot be brought to justice,we will bring justice to him". The civilized world will understand this, though they might prefer capture and trial. They will understand that these murders are a direct attack on the entire diplomatic community. I do not want our ambassadors accompanied by a rifle company of Marines; but I want it understood that "we are coming right at you". It was not for no reason that the Marine Hymn included "to the shores of Tripoli". The Tripoli marines had a lot of Arab allies.

...so many inaccuracies, so little time...

Hi Tisi
Bible study groups for Catholics. Why don't you contact the Archdiocese of Fall River and join the "Scripture Alive" program. The program will show you how to run a Catholic Bible Study group. To make it easier for you I put the link to the program below. Tisi, before you insult someone's faith please get a clue. Maybe you can find one at the group below.

http://www.fallriverfaithformation.org/continuing-edformation/scripture-alive-2.html

Tisi's mistake is understandable. Looks like this program is new. I haven't been a practicing Catholic for years. I don't recall much in the way of educational outreach regarding The Word. Anything the laity learned came to us through a very fine filter. Liberal Christian denominations are just as guilty of spoon feeding believers.

Good to know that times have changed for the Roman Catholic Church!

Tim Long, I am sorry if my comments seemed derogatory of Catholics. I do not wish to seem critical of any religion which does not involve the handling of snakes. Making observations about the manner of their beliefs is not criticism. What you took as criticism, I thought was a defense of Catholics against the criticism of believers by Gretchen.

Such facts as I recited are historical. Martin Luther's persecution was based on the fact he challenged dogma as not being in accord with scripture. At the time, the Pope made it clear that scripture was too complex to be understood by the laity. There are numerous historical references to the church taking that position. Are Popes not "infallible" in their declarations in matters of faith?

Having spent some of my youth in the "Bible Belt", it is noticeable that scriptural references are lost on most Catholics. They have no idea of how old Methuselah was, or that Rehoboth is a biblical reference. If the Archdiocese is introducing "bible study", I think that is "new".

Coming from an area where "Family Bibles" are common, I notice that they are rare among Catholics. Simply an observation.

I do not think it critical to say that people who believe themselves to be members of "the one true faith" protest the dogma of that faith. Does such "protest" not make them "Protestants"? Are they any further removed from the Faith than the Cathars who the Church decided to kill for their non-violent protests?

Tim, here is a question for you.
There have reportedly been thousands of Marian Apparitions reported in Herzegovina over the past decade. Are Catholics who accept these Revelations better, or worse, Catholics than those who do not accept them. What amazes me is the number of Catholics who are unaware of those apparitions, if true, they would seem fundamental to the faith. If I understand correctly, the Church is studying them, but has taken no position on them

so why do 96% of Catholics ignore On Human Vitae and use birth control??? Catholics I know think for themselves. We had a local priest say years ago, ultimately it's up to the individual Catholic's conscience. That's close to the Baptist position of "soul liberty."

the question of "are you better off today?" is the wrong question. I watched the video and was inspired and hopeful all over again. You see I believe in the dream of a better America without the Koch Brothers, and Sidney Adelson buying election. I believe we can rid elections of PACs and billions given by the rich and powerful to ensure their power and dominate the lives of the rest of us.

Thanks for your courage, Mark, to tell the accurate truth to Patch readers . . . in spite of the overly shrill Lefties all around this part of the country.

Jerry, I agree. It's an unbelievably courageous act to copy/paste partisan commentary on local news websites. Right up there with rescuing children from a burning building.

I'm a democrat (though I'm not speaking for the party here). I am against the State having to pay for a sex change operation for Koselik.

Also, Romney was extremely rash when he criticized the president. He politicized a volatile situations. One reason I like Obama is he's cool under pressure and continues to advocate for a balanced approach in the Middle East.

Janet, your figures are skewed. It's Bush II who got us into two unfunded wars who grossly increased the debt. Obama's contribution to the debt is modest considering we're still paying for those wars. Here it is from the Washington Post in graphic form. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

I like the Libertarian view on respect for individual rights. But this election cycle has so skewed the Right that Libertarians, who long supported women's access to birth control and abortion, have adopted the Right's ideology.
This negates what libertarianism stands for: no one can tell an individual how to live their life. A classical libertarian wants more than anything to be free from any government coercion, whether it's paying taxes or what they do with their own body.

Gretchen,
"Kirby: I watched in horror last Spring as Rick Santorum dragged Romney/Republican Party to the extreme Right on birth control."

"Horror" is an ineffectual, and not necessarily logical, emotion. Logical argument would better serve your position.

That left Romney, the eventual nominee, having to run on those extremist positions.

Memories are so short, it was not so long ago that being "pro abortion" was an extremist position. When I was a kid there was a doctor on Bank Street, in Attleboro, who was rumored to have performed an abortion. As kids,when we passed the office, we crossed the street for fear of being associated with it..

"Then the Catholic bishops chimed in claiming that they had the "religious freedom" to determine US healthcare policy and not pay for birth control."

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; (unless, of course, you doing that in Waco)

""so why do 96% of Catholics ignore On Human Vitae and use birth control??? Catholics I know think for themselves."

By the quality of their actions and implicit protest (surely greater that translating the Bible into German) they have abandoned Catholicism. The simple fact of their "protest" makes them "Protestants".

I think "extreme" and "draconian" are not good characterizations of someone who is "pro-life" - unless, of course, the same description is used for someone who is "pro-choice." It seems both are advocating positions that are not really anywhere in the middle (at least under the present societal construct).

Some pro-lifers argue against abortion in ALL cases and I suspect many would label that position 'extreme.' The law presently allows for abortions to take place at ANY time of the pregnancy, even up to the moment of birth. I suspect many would also label that law 'extreme.' (if they knew about it).

Avon Barksdale,
Because atheists are terrible people, right?

What atheists have to accept is that they voluntarily shoulder the necessity of proving non-existence, probably not possible and not an enviable position. For instance, how would I prove that not a single, precisely, half red/half green stone exists anywhere on the bottom of the world's seas. I would have to search every square inch of ocean. Atheists are called upon to search an entire spiritual universe.

"the Civil War was fought because black people were enslaving whites in the south."

Actually, the Civil War was fought because it was desired to conquer a sovereign nation, formerly a part of the United States which had lawfully seceded (in the sense that there was no law, or agreement, saying that they could not secede). When that idea lost its taste, we decided on "free the slaves". Observe older Civil War monuments. Prior to 1890 they refer to the "War to preserve the union". After that date, they begin to refer to freeing the slaves. (I am not opposed to freeing slaves, on the other hand we take little interest in it in places like the Sudan)

Because atheists are terrible people, right? Believing in whatever religion you were born into makes you more awesome than them, they have no souls and are already damned for eternity so why bother with their opinions here on earth? Rock on.

And its hilarious that anyone would believe that vouchers for religious schools - an issue backed almost solely by the far evangelical right - is some kind of liberal leftist plot for government control. In other news, the Civil War was fought because black people were enslaving whites in the south.

Avon: I don't know how to respond to your comments. I didn't say Athiests were terrible people anymore than Gretchen and others are saying Christians are terrible. Or maybe she and others are saying Christians ARE terrible? I'll have to think about that.

I also did not say there was a "leftist plot for government control". I am suggesting that the religious communities can not have it both ways. They cannot accept taxpayer money without expecting government interference. It will be incremental. But it will happen. If they open the door, they have no one to blame but themselves.

oh but your figures are skewed. I agree that people are unemployed and need jobs. When then when the Republicans came into the House in 2010 promising jobs, did they only talk about debt and didn't take ANY action to create or support the creation of jobs??? They are too busy hating Obama and putting 90% of their attention and energy toward getting a Republican in the White House--the well being of the nation and its people is the last and least of their concerns!

.....so the dozens of pieces of legislation, passed by the house since the 2010 elections, most of which are focused on job creation, dealing with the debt and health care are sitting in limbo because Harry Reid will not bring them to the Senate floor for a vote. Reid is afraid that a number of these bills have bi-partisan support and he could not allow the embarrassment of having any of them pass. The other reason he sits on them is that some of these bills would also put democrats on record as supporting the governments trampling of the the first amendmant rights for example. They hide behind executive fiat and now will need to stand up and be counted. Everything the liberasl due, in my opinion, seem to be based on political motivation and not what is the right thing to do.